DOE-UAP-D004 — Los Alamos Conference on Aerial Phenomena, 1949

TL;DR

The 1949 Los Alamos gathering outlasted the half-life of a plutonium isotope.

• Los Alamos Conference, 3/22/49, New Mexico, DOE PDF
• Discusses “green fireballs” reports, including 12-Dec-1948 sighting with horizontal path, constant brightness, silent
• No consensus reached; leading ideas remained speculative

AI summary

A 1949 Los Alamos conference document details discussions among military, academic, and government personnel about unusual aerial phenomena. Topics include reports of green fireballs, such as one observed on December 12, 1948, and another on January 30, with analyses of their paths, colors, and possible explanations. Researchers like Dr. LaPaz and Dr. Teller examine sightings, sounds, and animal reactions, while some reports mention unidentified objects, flying discs, and silent high-altitude movements. The document references dates including October 30, 1947, and January 1, 1948, and explores meteorite falls, atmospheric phenomena, and unexplained noises.

Full text

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UNITED STATES
ATOMIC ENERGY COMMISSION DECLASSIFIED
LOS ALAMOS, NEW MEXICO
Authority:
ADDRESS REPLY TO:
MANAGER, SANTA FE DIRECTED OPERATIONS NND 58378
U. S. ATOMIC ENERGY COMMISSION
P. O. BOX 1539
LOS ALAMOS, NEW MEXICO
AND REFER TO: R & D ROUTING
SFD-5-1 March 22, 1949
INFO ACTION INITIALS
DIRE TOR
DEPUTY - 302
EXECUTIVE
"E"
Lt. Cmdr. Richard Mandelkorn
AFSwP Headquarters "M^
Sandia Base
Albuquerque, New Mexi co
"N"
Dear Cmdr. Mandelkorn:
ADMIN
Furnished herewith is a transcript of
the minutes of the conference held at SUSPENSE
FILE M-9
Los Alamos February 16, l949, pertaining a
to aerial phenomena.
Very truly yours,
Sidney Newburger, Jr.
Chief, Security
Operations Branch
Encl:
As indicated
Department of Energy Declasoification Review
REVIEW-DATE:202ACO3 DETERMINATION [CIRCLE NUMBER(S) 1. CLASSIFICATION RETAINED "When seperated from enclosures, handle this
AUTHORYY: 2. CLASSIFICATIONICHANGED TO document as...
Deslved From: 3. CONTAIRIS NO DOE CLASSIPHED INFO .COORDMATE WIFK itornivies
REVIEW-DATE: 1023606.03 DECLASSIPIED
smecic S COTHER (SPECIFY: DHL UEOULY B CLASSIFIEDT INFO BRACKETED
MORTYDO
DECLASSIFIED
Athor N 58378
BKTA D/3/2026
SEGRET TMANSMI ITA
ducl#5 SHORT-TITLE24lL-5522

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COE'BREliCE

On
AERIAL PHENOMENA

Held a.t 1300, 16 February 1949, 1n conference room P-162, Los Alamos Scientific
La.boi."'atory, Lo& Alamoa, Bew Mezico.

Present:

4th Any:

Major Winn
Major Oodsoe
C~ptain Reef
l!anima,naer Mo.lldelkorn

t1n1versity ot XevMenco:

~- La.Paa

!'BI:

Mr.Maxlrell.

USAEC, 81"00:

Mr. Morgan
Mr. Bevburger

University ot California:

Dr. Bradbury
D.r. Holloway­
Mr. Hoyt
Dr. Me.nl.ey
Dr. Reines

Dr. Teller
1-1r. Ilelfburger opened the contereD.Ce and s~ted that the subJect ot Aerial

Phenomena was olassifie4 Secret 11'1tbia the mean111g of AR 380•5 mld canparable
appropriate regulations o~ the Navy and A11: J'orce~, and tba.t oil penonnel at
this meeti?Jg vere properfy cleared.

Mr. !l&wburger th<m 1nt1'0dueed Captain

Beef, who briaf'ly outlined the purpoe" of tbia meet;ing.
Captain Beet:
8Ql1i.e

It aU start d back 1n DecGmber, 1948, when w first received

reports from same airline pilats tha.t these 6NCJ1. :firebe.lls vere sisb.ted.

At this s~e v~ bad no idea what to do with it or vhat it ,ran.

We e.pprooobf:d

Dr. LaPaz 'Who has been aqsisting us, gratis, since tbat date. Almost over two
"
months now that he hao been assisting us, oo in order to have you get the tacts _·'
as they ue to a sc1en-tiet, I'll let Dr. IaPaz q:plain these tbings as we have ~
:found t.hem. Then you ~ give ua your opinion trom. theft; that 18 what we are
'"
interosted in.
Dr. La.Paz: I would like to ·rev1ev ubat is observed in the ca.ee ot a. conven­
tiol'l&l. meteorite fall. Rot that I bave e.n7 )lopes of saying anytb1113 10u don't
a,l.ready kncnf, but because I regard the observational ev14ence observed by tm,
conventional meteorite falls as providine tbp necessary b a c ~ for tlhat is
?1,0t,J ob3erved.
Meteorite falls (tor next minute or two, Dr. L&Paz'a cet!Jments
on recoi-d drowned out by noise trcm di tell digger immediately outeide conference

roQm) • • • • • • • Bece.uae of eou:nd phenomena ~ , the hll ot a large
me·lreor1te wiU cQWJe great frisht among button beings neceasar1.1.y but primari~
among animals, o~ all kind~. 'Ihe tact toll~, by- a meteorite falling into the

• DECLASSIFIED .....
All1fladlJ HM R 5 8 2J8
•
BJ '.}Jl.1f · r fCARA, 8atf fp/3/ ~ fj(,

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Conference on AERIAL PHENOMENA

earth, ts as you would elt!)ect, one at rend.ool - in azimuth and elevation.

I.f

the rad.laat t7hi te is knovn., yor: can preciict the minimum angle with respect to
the plane of the horizon nt which the m.eteoi-i•ce path has been observed. There
is no choice, e.s f'a.r as the ..... for direction wen rceteorites fe.11 in at
ranc1om. I'd like to contrast 11o·n-, at this time, thia fact with what has been
observed by some indivi.duals here at the co.:?lf'erence and by r.::aey of the AESS
inspectorll, UAL pilota, special a.gents, goodness knows how many other categories

of people. I choose to describe ·Ghe only one of the incidents that I vas
pereonally o. wi:~nesa to. It io the only one of the incidents that I am in a
nooiticn to vouch fo~ on the basis of experience, dating from 1915, as a member
of the Am~rican !>1etaor Society; w-as most certainly not a. conventioll81 meteorite
fall. It -was the so-called St:U.--vation Peak incident on the night of December 1.2,
19116. 'l'iue of observation around 9;02 P.M., plus or minus 30 seconds. This
rir0·oa11 nppeared in full intenoity instantly • there was no increase in light.
Its color,, estimated to be somewhere arotmd wave length 5200 engstroma, .ms a.
hue green, or yello-11 green, such ae I had never observed in meteor falls before.
The path ua.e a& I!.etlrly horizontal as one could determine by visual observation.
We have ~ pho·togra:1>h which might be some li--;; ra ot departure from horizontal..
The trajectory was traverse at, I am inclined to believe, constant angular
velocity. Just befor0 the end of the pat;h ·there we.a the very 811gb.test drooping
of the path, that io the green fireball broke into fragments, still bright green.
Dr. Teller:

And all this time the intensity uas approxiJDately constant?

Dr. !.a.Paz:: All -the time, as fa'.!." ae I cou.ld determine.
e.dmitted.l.~r a very crude phcrcographer.

Dr. Teller:

The eye, of course, is

Rov long did the phenomenon last1

Almost exactly two i:;econds. We have in the reports here, I brought
the com:plt::te file nth ma and uould be glad. to circulate them, duration measures

Dr. 1-.'i.Paz~

in 1•ela.tion. to all observations.

Fev of -these, h~rever, I believe, were

deter.Jlinoo under as favorable circumstancea as the duration of the Starvation
Peak incident.

Possibly I should go back and review the situation a little bit.

Because oom~ report, iaau.ed by the AESS, uoul.d certain]Jr suggest that I was
prinillrily responsible for starting this whole matter I am glad that Captain
Reel' corrected that impression. Actually:- I YaS on an investigation in regard
to -'che green fireball. observed on tho night of December 5th at the time the
Dece111ber 12th incident occurretl. As a :result I was keyed up; I was 'WBtehing;
I h'.1.cl a stop vatch with me and a transit. We got into position and made
measures, transit :ciee,suros, on azimuths and elevation readings; that is, we
ma.de a dm.·a:cion check, certainly within not more than tvo or three minutes
sftor the incident occurred. To that extent, I believe, it is posaibly' the
best observed ot any incident up to tha time of the January 30th fall.
Dr. Manl~r:

Hem did you have time to use ·t;b.e tranai t?

Dr. La.Po.~: The transit was in the back of ·the car. The mament the car was
parked a:c the aide of th2 road, we yanked. the transit out and set 1t u,p and

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We were i r. motion at the time but ,re ve1•e able to ge·t; a
very good check of 'Uhat w obsc!'Ved at the time on the road near Starvation
Peak. Ue had a cJ.ea.r view of the sky to the Northwest om the WeBt, and the
object wan so low over the horlzon it was possible to compare 1t not o:nly to

began meauurement.s.

the ste.:r•a irith which I am f'am1J.iar, but with 1--espect to Il¥)untain peaks -~t

were also visible. To continue, that duration vas a.bout two second.Q. 'l'his is
one of tho puzzling ~ s to the meteorists. I believe I do not exaggerate
-.:hen I say tila:'c ':}(:ffa of the d~tion detcrmi:nations that have bclen made 1n the
case of the green f'il."'eballs have given durations right in that vicinity.
Whel'ees you -take, sa.y, 100 ord:luarymeteor observations you will :tind the
·widest diversions in durations. You could take tbe same leason a.a observed
by 100 people - possibly that 0 z a better example .. and there would be wide
va.rietionn in the estimates of dm-ation.
Dr. MaDl.e~r:

Did you correlate the ardmu.tha vi th ..•.. '?

No. T'.iJ.ere ie an azimuth factor here which I am goiDg to talk to
you about, that relates to the choice of clirection. Both our observations are
single station observations, no that it beeomes impossible ~am the observe.•
tion mec.aure to deter.nine the x·eal path of the fireball in the atmosphere.
There have been only 'three caeea vhere the.t path was determinable. one, as I
rece.ll it.:- 'W'aS tbat of Dacembez- 12, a.ncrcher December 20, and f'1nally, of course,
the very :.nrge fall 0,.1 January 30, 1949. Pll give you some particulars on the

Dr. LaPe.z :

path3.

I do wrm:c to observe, however, that even our station observations

present a puzzling eharacteris·,ic to the meteorista.

I f you plot what are
called, by meteorists, the admiosible protozons for a gi'een fireball tbat has

been obse11Ved, you vill find thut they give, on the average, an approach al:most
to the North, come dOffll. from the North, they are not restricted to 'l
•
Bow

whe.t about. -I.he real patbo? I e;ave sane indications e.s to the altitude at which
m.eteoriteo normally disrupt full . . . . . and cme d0m1. That relates to the
loi-rest . . . . . o~ path. The green fireballs are unusual in this respect:
probably that they a.re horizontal or nearly so, or that their horizontal path
is traverced very lcn1 down in the otmosphere. In the ce.se of the real paths
f'or wicl'l vre have be - able to make determinations so ~e;r, those are sra,phical
determinations, as ve have not taken the trouble to use Chablis (t) method& or
. . . . . bec~use the observstions a.re regarded aa necessarily too rough for
• ema.tical niceties. Those paths are ·traversed at elevations between 8 and
10 d.lee. I defy you to find anywhere amoDg meteorists, examples of conven­
tional. meteorites that move over long horizontal. pa.tbs reserving nearly constant
angular velocities a.nd t.herefo1·e, on the average, con.st.ant linear velocities, at
elevat iomi of the order o-r 8 to 10 miles. There is a good deal of evidence that
may be of value in the complete reports that a.re available hore, but since this
is sn introduction, I wuld like to summarize at. this stage: the fireball which
I personoJ.1y vi tnesaed on the night of December 12, 1948, ws not, in my
opinion, e. conventional. meteor :fall. S1!1Ce the majority of the green fireballs
nave been reported to me, both before and. a:fter this December 12th occurrence.,
poeeess elnost all the propertielil vbich I persOllally observed on the night of
December 12th, I feel that 1n all probabillty they are not themselves conven­
tional met,eol~ falls. Now, the easy wy out of this is -to coajure u;p an un•.
conventional. type of . . . . . metcorite, vhioh comes in practically parallel to the

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Conference on AEICAL PHENOMENA

surface of the e~~h and is aa.:i.ehol{ eadowcd vi th tbe property against the very
grea"i:, atmor.pher1c reointance tlmt is experienced. on a level, it reserves neerly
eons-t-..e.n.t ve1lccity over paths say of th.e order of 25 to over 100 miles, as in
the case oi' the greeu fireball en January 30th. It should also bave the
property that i t is a very remerkable h·t1e of green, not heretofore observed,
to my knowledge, in "i:.ho case of a:ey- conveutional meteor falls. And finally,
and this pcseibly Ls the moa·I; i.1;1plausible :t"ea.ture of c.ll, that although 1 t
produce:, l:i.ght vi:;i".)lc at distances of the o:rder o-f 1!00 miles, i t doeSI1't make
e.. sound. J.:n the case of che Jru.?.uary 30th fell, due to the fact that there had
been o. lcre;e mmibcr of milltc1-"7 :persoxmi:?l alerted, ve wre able to obtain
obeervat:i.ona vith".n a minute af'\,je? the fall occurred end pursued the investiga­
tion over E'. d.i.atsncc of 1,600 miles - in Texas mud. prim2r1ly! - in some ten

,,e saw not one substan..

days• ti!lle inte..'1"V'ie'lf'lng literaJ.J.y hundreds oz people,
tio.ted accc,unt ot no:l.ee produced by the meteorite fall.

Dr. Teller:· V.ay I a.ok how many people have seen this one big meteorite?
Dr. laPaz:

T'ABt .:a difficult to say. (r~cord blank for abort perl,od) ••••••••
FinaUy, ir: the illten-ogation of such persons, w invariably interview them ae
individuaJ.t1. lie •:;rlod a :f'amily o'f 8 the first night, as Majo:z- Godsoe will
recall.• :i.n·· erviev-lng ..•.. and :tt became apparent at once that there vas same
i;ympe:chetiu influence o.nd we broke j_t off after I think the th:trd or fourth
oboervatiOI~ c.:nd thereafter inte:.'.'Vie,red separately. Ii' you were to search,
howe"ter, the inde::9endent observations of those who were v.tdely separated,
!'.)ossibly stations o! the order of 100, ·there lrere probe.bl.y 100 ditterent

staticna Teporting.
D1·. Teller:

What area did that cover?

Dr. taPa8: All o::' New.Mexico, ell the Western half of Texas.

I have a map

here mth ume indic:itions of possibly the extent of that.
Hoyt and B:•adbury:

Wasn°t that Sunday the 2l~th?

Dr. L~az: Ro, 1-t was definitely Sunday tha 30th. The nevspapers have very
hrlrfull.Y conceelccl mst of the r~levan'G facts relating to tb.is f'ireball. First.,
they described it as a firebaJ.l., second, ·they .••• (record blank tor f'ev seconds).
interi'eri·ec. m.th OSI and mum ~t a.ble to do that this time. Thie is the f'ield
map and ,rll.l give 111 various eolore, dots and pencil <iashs, etc. all of the
obsei-vationa obta~ned on the T~a.s search.
Dr. Tellel":

All ~:elate to one i'a.1.1?

Dr. 1'..a.Paz: Yee. T'aese lines a.re drat.'D. from points o:f observation. The center,
cs you see. of i,o:·nts of e.ppearerce is SO"Jlevhere Southwest of Amarillo or South­
oouthveai of Amarillo. The disappe~.re.nce point is in the vicinity of Lubbock,
Texas. At the time this Ul18 dr...wn, before I 1-ra.s able to make out t?'aalSit
meaoures 111 ·i;b.e v:l.cinity of Alb\:.querque, this ,re.o the beet apparent path of tho
?ircioo.llc. These other illk lines are independent, made by other groups ot
obsej,""Vero i:rorking on the Scmle p:. oble:m. ( record blenlt again for short time) •
Thi:; transtt, Uilfortunately, had. s. needle with a ben·c p1et-..on and it was Mt

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discovered until m,.ch 1e;~er tha-c ve uere getting faulty z-ecords.

Independently,
I b£.ve re~deten:.ined, using the best equip:nent available at tho University, the
lines of sight a.t all po:~ta where the faulty t.rans1t had been used. I have
plotted on this map only obser. at:l.on.s that I made pG>.-son.9.l.ly or such obuerva­
tions as I have c-,1cry reason to believe ,,rere Jnade by experienced personnel, for
exam.ple UAL flyers, who took tll~ trouble to make measures, or possib~ civil
engj.neel'G.

Dr. Teller:

You mean theae people right afterwards or shortly a.f'term,.rds took

an i11st1'Ull:en:c e.tit. tried ·:;o meavure it?

Dr. u.Pa.z:

'.!..'hat a right.

Dr. Teller:

Thie is the po:Lnt where 1t disappeared?

Dr. LaPa.z: And r.01-me.J.l..y', all you td.ll get is the point where it disappears,
becauae t.te ave1•£1gc man is ali'ar~ ot the fa.ct that when he i i , not w.rned, he
mak~s e. very im.t:curate observation. Having been uai-ned by- the appearance 0:
the fireball, hio attent:J.on is fixed and he wtches where it bursts, where it
explodes, where :it disappears. So I say thia is a much better det.o:m:Snaticm..
This begirning point, al-though you notice the .•.. of line here, is reasonably
sa.tisfactcry.
Dr. Te.lle1·: Are these points here observers of the teat, locations of those
obs~rvatic:118? •
Dr. LaPaz: Usua.Uy e. dotted c::rcle like tb&t illd1ca.tes a. reported sound obSe't'"•
vation. f'e use this symbol: n c11·cle is a report, whether or not the
observation includ.es azimuth o:? elevation, light appearances, is indicated ,,....,,.
the preser.ce of a. cross. U i"G is blacked out, both light and aound vere
heard. nu, ever;/ one o~ those thiI!go baa been disproved. In the area vb.ere
the end poin.t w.u located, oil well drilling was underuay, dynamite blasting
in connection 'f7i th ae'c·ting up of i-igs, same nitro beill,g used apparently to
ehe:tter . . . . . In ave17 case ,re .rere able to e%Cl.ude the posaibil.1ty that the
noioea :reported 00-tu.s..Uy 't1ere ·ded 1n vith the meteorite fal1. At least let
me say, 1It my op:;.n:Lon, those noisee vere excluded. In certain cases,
1nde:pe.ndet:.tly, ths.:~ ws conf'ir~ed by a visit of Lt. Rym:l. of the Roswell group
of -the om:. For instance, the best case of all, near Amherst ? , or noise the obeer\-er, i t ea true, was only a ten-year old boy, but be wrote a very
intelligent letwr, and 1t is 1:-ell lmO"W tbat children, like en1maJ e, are more
seru:;i tive to sound than people v.bo have listened for too many years, say, to
the xa.dio. It appeared eonceiva.blo that he had actually made a soUDd observa­
tion, but Lt. Ryan uent to Amhent ?, found that even three members of the
family "i!ere not able to confirm his observation of noise cmd. no oue 1n the
town, aome 300 o:r 4oo persons I think in all vere eetimated to have been
visited, l'.O one o.t all had hem,! a sound, so I think that Mike probably hen.rd
the samll! c ~tc blaat as had been reported by Miss Winoon Didpasture .. I
diful't tal.e that name out of the tunny papers, it actually exists.
( continual e~nation of the maps m th minor interrogations concern1.Dg
markings.)

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Dr. Le.Paz: W!th 0&"1e exception, in the ca.a,.., of' Roswell, there e.re two types
of cound aasoci&ted 11ith meteorite fu.lls end, I acsume, associated vi.th the
motion of any very high velocity projectile or missile through tbe air.
T°J'.lere sre vb.at ~rc1c1ats wuld cul reczoneble oounda, end while he would
not acknm,lede;e i J.;, s1multaneouoly with ~.;he c.ppaarcnce or a meteor1te, you
hear c. meteorite, yhc physicist ,;rill refuse to believe the observation.

revert.Jwleas, there i.a a tremendous volume of evidenc indicating that these
m~maloU3 sc'\lllds oc:cu:..-red. Anyone who cioes field work 1n the search for
zaeteo:rites 'tr.Lil c0:.1e acroso possibly 'JUI, oi' the observers who say that,
although my a"i.tention ~ attracted by hn-..ari.Il8, a miining noise, e vhistling
noioc: I looked up and ·Ghere ,mo the fir~bal.l. In o:ther words, this ana:nalnus
1?:ound a.ppe.rently attracts attention to the occurrence. I bnve an article by
Brandon . . • . . one of ·Ghe flO!I.S of the man w~ first investigated the great
creter out :,.n Ar1Zon3, and. s chap by the name or Bart ? vith 1r"ho:n I am not
perao:aally ccgy.z.dnted but a :p~~icist ap_parontly at Princeton, 1n which they
etteJeyt ·w ~ uotify t.b.e occurrence of ano:m.1.ous sound. They express 1 t roughly
in th:f.a fe:aion. Elcctro.I!t3gnctic radiation is net up by
(Dr. Teller excused. to anawer the phone.)
Dr. L3.Pllz: You wouldn't believe it anylray! Ho~r, •.••• electromagii.etic
ra.d.iction iu rectified somehow by the . • . • . changed into sound tbat can be
heard and, •aieref'ore, you cu. he:u- the reetcorite at the seme time you ece it
fell. In the case of the Roswell observation apparently that occurred. t::e
have
e;ro,.ql of five men • there uerc nea.r a. stee1 '1!ll0kestack • ond tSVfi1rY
le.ct one of them m;e1.""'0 that they heard at the same time they were va.tchillS
the green f:.reball eo by, c. noise like, se.y., o eaeoline blOV"torch. 'lb:lt ie

ccrtoinly not an ordinary explosives cound.

One :core thing in connection

m:'Gb the noirnea. In every other :meteorite f'all, any one meteorite :tall that
I ho.vc inventigated, - that cove1·0 ms.ey yea.rs .. I have ver yet found sn

occasion of n detonating fireball., vithout meteorites caning dovn at all,
:!.:!'l '!rh.ich ·chore vao not sam.e evidence of ala..""l!l of an1rnal s.

Chickmls will fly

e:-oun.il to tcy to uet under cover. DogG vill howl o.nd try to get into the
houGe. liorsea vill run o.vay. In the ca6~ of the TCJm.s fall., in epite or the
tranend.oun a.reg:. in llbich the llght 1,-as obcerved., we found not a a1ngl.e caoe

;,t

in which ·c.ho w1rool6 vere disturbed. We lm2w
the cdtie of a farmer who hwl,
in mmny Te.me, a pond vi.the f'ive-inch layer of ice, tmo reported that e.
~~teori te had foll.en through the ice on tbat pond, had broken a hole. Captain
Neef here pu-'c on o. pair of rubber booto l.1lld very thoroushly searched the pom
wi-'Gho it finding n meteorite. Even 1u that oaoo there vae no evidence of

alarm by ~h~ e.n1nm,Jo.
I bel.ievc vith tlmt aummary, I'd better cease operations
and have yo 1 o.sk quetrl;icma.

Q-u.estion:

llou ?mny obnerved fall.6?

Dr. L9.Paz:

I'd like to clasaify thooo into three groups.

I ·would 88-,Y that

there ere ten instances that definitely merit the moat eerioue conaidere.tion.
They are strictly e.mlogous to the green fireballs of the night of December 12.
On top of that, there muat be sauething of the order of tmmtymore which ere

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so ·irell rapo:..'ted, from Los Alaoos for example, tha.t although the green fire­
bsllu observed ohoved small . • . • the na.ture of the fireball • • • • many
obs~rva"iiions ot ob3ervers· lrho paid prectically no attention to the sky at
P.ny other time in their lives and now vhen they see a really bright light,
they report it. You will find a great; na.ny instances of bluish-white tire•
balls. In my op:!.nion, thoi.;e fa.lJ.iug vertical.ly and leaving trails, are
c:iro:ply ordinary shooting stars. Of high intensity, that is, what we call
fircbal.l.s, a blue light, 8.1.'e not in ezr:, sense to be associated with the green

lights.

Those th...-ee categories ·chen.

Dr. Mmley:

?

Dr. La.Paz: In the ce,se of the tuo green fireball paths, determined from Los
Ala::no:s obse:r-·tations, in one caae the Ste.rvation Peak incident, we have an
Ea.st-Wet3t :modon, and then also a motion exactly parallel to ••••• In other
'lfOI"d.B, ·these two real pe.tho Bho-vr, I think they are the only two ·or the first
category that show any real dei.>artui e tram the • • • • • It is possible to
explain t!l.S.t. It is qui.te evident that ue have no case ot assurance tb.s.t
bot!.l gt-o~is of ob£ervcrs, the observe1·s at.Starvation Peak and the observers
at Los Alamos, s11"t-·· the oame point of ..... so that if' we were to merely ask
·lfba.t are the linite Within which ouch real paths might fall., it t'l.1l'lU3 out
tha:t it migb.i; be eo short ae 12 miles instead of bei:ng 25 miles long, and in
ths.t case i .,.; woulo. be directed almost directly to the North; it vould come
doun veey ncs.rly .,"i·thin 2 degrees, 5 ~et;rees say, of the North,. In the case
of the 'l'exao obE:Cl'\ratioI\.8, whe:::-eao I hav-e ind.icated and the maps show, we
ha;rn Jl'.I.BJ.lY obaervut.tons by tra:1.ned observers, motion :J.o clearly almost directly
North -to South. I have been informed that tllan are reasons for regarding the
. . . . . oat here (ditch digger) . . . and you no·cice that this passeo reasonably
close to Lubbock. The seme is true of the two earlier fireballs, those of
Decembe~ 12 and Decembe1· 20. They both ps.saed • one passed centrally over
Loo Al.a.mos and the other about six mil.eo North o-r the center, but this would
not be trae . • • . . (ditch digge::) . Ono point that poasibly should have been
me -i;ioned ea.'1'.'ller is this: I 1mo the more interested vhen Captain Neef came
to my ottice and brought the December 5th incident to my mind because very
nuch earlier I bad been conto.c·.:;ed firet by • • • White, Director of Texas
Obs~rve!"s, in regard. to ·their remarkable green :na..-re aecn on January 1, 1948.
Second, f'rom a tr. Pru1 tt, Director lforthweGtcrn Section, City &..~tion, o~
the Meteor Socie·Gy, I had been informed that earlier occurrences of bright
green t'ireba.llo, r.ot too far f::.•om the Hanford area. When Captain Neef' came
in ,;..r:i.th r(!l)orte of green fireballs ne~.r Lo.a Vegas and particularly when ho
disclosed that the1-e l.'aG a Los Ala.mos near !Bs Vegas - the real !Qa Alamos it 1.1ad much interest.
Dr. 'BolJ.mray:

Are there aey reports of theac from otlwr install&tions, such

aa Troy, New York, or places like that?
Dr. Le.Paz:. I xaised that ques..; ion end ! lmorr or no other cases. I mean to
aay the a:~eaa from which these reports came, as in one, t'or such evidence as
..... , they do not relate to the green f'ireballs; they relate to the daylight
occurrence of hcrlzo.ntaJ. moving, bright wbite obJecte - same in Memphis,
Tem1essee iziMay, 1948 - tbat :..a not too far from Oak Ridge. They relate to

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Con.fer~nco on AERIAL PHEUO.MlfflA

Page 8

the Ranfo1:d area as far as the Pru1tt observations go, a?Jd to the observations
that I 81re mentio 1ed. here in the I.!ts Vege.s-Los Alamos e.rea • o . • • • • A very
curious thing has came to light during these investigations. I published not
long ago n.n artiole in Science mustrated on the recovery of the • o • • • T~m
meteorite. The -'Yi.me that fell: Februnry 18, 1948, the rumor got around
sameholf' in l,orthern Kensas and Southern Kansas that it was a Russian bomb,
and 1 t ,mu e.imed at the geogra1>hical center of the Unived States which is not
-very far :."rem •• o • • Apparently, a great many p~le gave credence to that
rumor and vere d~llghted mi.en 'tre i'inall.y recovered meteoritee up there and
pro·red :l.t waan 8 ·, eeything but e-.n ol:dinary mcteor1 te :fall. Incidentally, 1 t
did not have the cha:racteristics of tb.e ~ fireba:l.l we're t-Olk1ng about here.
There mis a.n air transpor·i; pilot wo made a moet curious observation while
fly-.lng near Cher-oourg on January 16, 1946. His observation was tbe observation
of a bounning meteor. After 'tfliat I •ve been telling you about the green 1'1::e­
balls, you. probably think it not unreasonable that a meteorite should bounce
but to thr~ meteorlytical mind J..;hat seems very hard to swallow. The interest
is ·that oae or your ovn persons here at Los Alamos, one aDd confirmed at least
in ~ b;r four othe!' persona, SE',v one of the green f"in:bal.le come down e:od
then glido of'f horizontally. 1lhe bouncing rueteor1te 1a, manually ezplained by
having it fom, say sinusoidal motion lying in about the plane at wich the
observer ·ma loo't:1.ng so that he first eav the high point of the curve or the
peak. Th<! next time it vaa at the peok, it w.e so -r.s:r away that the altitude
,ro.s very :i.cn,, ";fhich will give yo1.1. the 8:l?Pearance of a bouncing meteorite. I
otter-~·-; as a :possible explanation. ot course, he may have landed in Paris
befcre he J!l£.de t::le Cher'bourg flight 8.Jld then we should disregard the testimoey
ent:t1--ely!
Mr. Iiewbu::-ger:. Dr. La.Paz, you men..i ;ioned, I beli,ve, at one of our other
meetingo ·.;hat they had compared the color of this with certain metals?
Dr. LaPo.z: Tbatas r-lght. Initially ve coul.a. onl.y ask them what 'they thougb't
it looked like. .And we got such interesting responses that ve eventually
carried a:.~und a spectrum chart and al.loved. everybody to make hie own choice.
Of' course, the use of the apectni:m clwrt lra.S UDI1ecessary il they have a color
like one :Lady vho had aroUlld he:r neck a green scarf' vhich she assured. me had
er..actly the ceme hue, but norma1ly not having euch tbb1gs to look at, they
were plealed to have the chart to loolt at. They will choose, i n ~ of the
cases, ca·cegory 1 o.nd. category 2 a uave length Wieh corresponds to something
between 4900 and possibly 5300. Most o:r them Yill tall vuy close to 5218
1,.hich is .1bout the color you get whim you have copper saltcs in the Bunsen
buner. I cheeked With Dr. Regener on that and asked him if an alloy had
been. used, like, eo.y, copper beryllium, U there wollld be any change in th.st
hue, and :ie has ~ssured me thei-e would not. He se.id 1t ,fOUld still g1ve
s.wronr.1a·~ e.ppearonce ot bery1.lilllil copper . . . • • You 'trill find 1n probably
1350 of t:..ie 1500 only the mereat trace of copper occurrence. There are e.
few z4eteo:l!"ites like . . . . . in South Dakota, mi.ere 11ttle veins of copper have
been toUDil, making up possibly .l~ of 1i.
Dr. Bradb.iry:

Is this true or all meteorites?

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Conference on AERIAL PHENOMENA

•

Page 9

It Os true in 8JlY' ce.tegory. Even ill the irons, the presence ot
copper is very hard to detect, ,re::ey little. . . . . . (ditch digger). I don't
kn.01, whether you gentlemen could auggest an easy way to obtain green firebull.

Dr. LaPaz:

spect!'a 01" not.
Dr. Teller: Wha.t is the geogI'G'.!)hieal solution ot this?
Dr. La.Paz~

Ano·t.~.er map trould probably answer that best of a.11.

{Lool:ed at more mapa m.th GOl!!e talk that vaa not audible.)
Mr. Hoyi coni"ir.ned the green hu.e of the gre fireball he had seen on the
night of December 30., 1948. (Reco1·d dead dor minute or tvo.)
Mr. lioyt: I would have said approximately as tar above the mountain as tho
floor 0£ the val.ley -.ra.a below the top of the mountain. I felt that wuld
give me somewhere in the neigblorhood of 20,000 feet or thereabouts. It we.s
about 5 minutes to 6, on my '!ray up here. I have a reeling that it had a
dmm~d path. ! mean it 'Ira.a going South.
Dr. La.Paz:

But :~t was not 1Strietly horizontal?

Mr. Hoyt:

Ro.

Dr. LaPaz: We have some discrcpanciea in tbnt regard. 9':/1, or the observa•
t1011s indicate a vary nearly horizontal path. One fram Fort Worth, Texas,
which im.s not made by ••.•• but meas~d by them, indicateo an elevation o:f
6 degrees st the beginning and 2½ to 3 degrees at the end.
Mr. Boyt: That 'n what I would have said, but remember that the ridge wuld
give you the senBa-c;ion ·i;hat it was taking a d011Jlll'lU'd path. Duration • e.t
the tim~ I wou.ld say it wao approx.ima.tc:ly 3 seconds.

Cre:td.'t". Mandelkorn:

How does the calculated velocity ot thsse objects compare

vith the known velocity o~mcte~rites?
Dr. J'..a.Pa~:

Appal'ently ver-y much lower; that 1s,· more tban the ordina.r1ly
Fin.it., to observe in the cast of an actual
meteor!te :tall you have a relatio-A o~ ·~e velocity from the auricle ot .....
atmoaphere down to the 1mpaet velocity which may be very ..... but i t isn't

observed r.ceteorit;e falls.

fair to compare the velocity of the green fireballs to the impact velocity
of •••••• (ditch digger and.

Text continues in the original file (25 pages).

Story: Do UFOs watch our nukes? Green fireballs over the A-bomb labs, a secret meeting with Edward Teller, and Roswell

• DOW-UAP-D094: 1949: sightings near Oak Ridge, Las Cruces and Hanford (the A-bomb sites)
• DOW-UAP-D154: Ruppelt, 1952: "Around Los Alamos and the Albuquerque area, there's concentrations"
• DOE-UAP-D004: The secret meeting, 16 Feb 1949, room P-162: Teller, Bradbury, Reines, LaPaz, the FBI
• DOW-UAP-D017: The copper test: "no widespread significant dispersion"
• 65-hs1-834228961-62-hq-83894-section-6: FBI file, 1950: the expert changes his mind
• CIA-UAP-002: Still on the table in 1953: the Twinkle report
• Full story and evidence

Same topic: title & summary match

• DOE-UAP-D003 — Pajarito Astronomers Invitation, 1986
• DOE-UAP-D002 — James Tuck Correspondence, 1970s
• DOW-UAP-D154 — Transcript of a Presentation by Captain Edward J. Ruppelt, 1952

Same location: New Mexico

• DOW-UAP-D017 — UAP Reported at Sandia Base, 1948-1950

Same period: 1949

• DOW-UAP-D094 — Analysis of Flying Object Incidents in the United States, 1949
• FBI-UAP-D011 — D/FBI Correspondence Referral, 1949

Same release: Release 04

• DOW-UAP-D097 — Project Sign Progress Report, 1948
• NASA-UAP-D030 — STS-80 Unidentified Object Image 1, 1996
• NASA-UAP-D031 — STS-80 Unidentified Object Image 2, 1996
• NASA-UAP-D032 — STS-80 Unidentified Object Image 3, 1996
• DOW-UAP-PR104 — Unresolved UAP Report, Yellow Sea, 2025
• DOW-UAP-PR105 — Unresolved UAP Report, East China Sea, 2025

Same agency: Department of Energy

• DOE-UAP-D001 — Enhanced PANTEX Imagery
• DOE-UAP-D005 — Pantex Unidentified Object Incident Report, 2015

Discussion

• Do UFOs watch our nukes? Green fireballs over the A-bomb labs, a secret meeting with Edward Teller, and Roswell